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What do the Reformed mean when they say someone is a "dispy?"

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docs1	What do the Reformed mean when they say someone is a "dispy?"		Lead	[-]
Posts: 2 03/02/08 23:13:23	Tags : None I don't know if I'm in ballpark here and still am not sure how to label myself. I don't know what a "dispy" is really supposed to be at this point either. I was actually thinking this afternoon of coming to this forum and asking the question - "What do the Reformed mean when they say someone is a "dispy"- and I saw the word again in some of the posts below about the tribulation. I may be wrong but I find myself (rightly or wrongly) hesitating around Reformed believers to bring up some of the things I did in my post below about the tribulation for fear of hearing, "Oh, he's just another dispy." There seems to be a negative connotation attached to the word when it comes from Reformed believers but if I am wrong about that I would like to know. If it helps, I don't have any Hal Linday books nor do I believe in a pre-tribulation or mid-tribulation rapture. This "comic book" secret rapture will be shown to be a cruel and disillusioning hoax in the end. Christ will return once and that not secretly. But is that even what the Reformed are perhaps referring to when the word "dispy" is used? I don't know but there seems to be a sarcasm of sorts attached to the word (not nesessarily by people here) that I sense. If I have beliefs about modern Israel am I supposed to duck my head for believing such foolishness as some have told me? And other things. I also don't know much about the 7 different dispensations or whatever some people divide Biblical history into. I've just seen a little info about that here and there. I was actually thinking this afternoon of coming here and asking for fear of raising it on another forum. Then I saw the word and thought I would go ahead and ask. Btw, this forum seems a good one. Perisseuo recommended it and I am glad he did. I bet more would agree with that than just me and I hope my first posts don't make me seem like I'm trying to come on as a gang buster. I'm just trying to find someone to talk to. Thank you. "Doc" "for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13) Last Edited By: docs1 03/07/08 06:21:25. Edited 10 times.
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Perisseuo		#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 208 03/03/08 00:24:55	Doc, I see two major differences between Dispensational and Covenant Theology. Though Reformed can be substituted for Covenant, Dispensational and Covenant Theology are really the squaring partners. First, Dispensationalists see discontuinity between the OT and the NT; whereas Covenant people see a continuity between the two testaments. Secondly, the Dispensationalists see God as having two people - Israel and the church; whereas CTs see God as only having one people - saints in the OT and saints in the NT. John Chaney "having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith . . ." (Colossians 2:7 NASB)
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ndegroot		#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3 03/03/08 10:37:09	Doc, I agree with you about the use of the term "Dispy." It sounds pejorative. I wonder if we wouldn't all be better served if we tried to avoid using it.
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Fetor		#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 23 03/06/08 22:42:50 Novice	I understand that my following comments are off topic, but I think it's a bit ridiculous that we be concerned if dispy is pejorative/offensive. I'm not suggesting that we be intentionally offensive, but we all need to buck up a little bit. "The word 'genius' isn't applicable in football. A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein." -Joe Theisman
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docs1	Dispensationalism and Israel	#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 5 03/10/08 00:33:24	I can't speak for all of dispensationalism's beliefs because frankly I don't know them and some that I do know I disagree with. One of the controversies surrounding dispensationalism is of course its beliefs concerning Israel. If my limited knowledge is correct, and even my intuition, I think maybe dispensationalism doesn't see God as having two people - Israel and the church. I think rather "dispys" may be trying to bear in mind Israel's unique covenant status in the plans of God and how this will eventually play out and bring a wholeness to the history of salvation and redemption. This unique and undeniable status is part of the reason Jesus said to the woman at the well, "Salvation is of the Jews." It is also I think part of the reason that God seems restless and unwilling to cease until the unbelieving natural branches are grafted back in again after the "mystery" of Israel's pre-ordained and temporary blindness concerning Christ (Romans 11:25) is sovereignly removed. The original covenants are incomplete until "all Israel is saved" and dispensationalists as far as I know believe that Israel's restoration will bring final historical vindication to the covenants which will be a soverign testimony to the faithfullness and ability of God in the eyes of the nations. It in no way discounts the full membership that the largely Gentile church now enoys after having been grafted into the covenants of promise because of and in spite of Israel's unbelief - "I will make you jealous with a nation which wasn't a nation." It rather highlights that the church and the present elect of unredeemed Israel will experience a converging destiny that will eventually and ultimately rebound to the glory of the Lord. A natural innate abilty to walk after God in the inner man never has and never will be possessed by the Jews. That was not God's point in choosing the Jews to be the recipients of the covenants and the promises. It was rather to demonstrate that "the election of God will ultimately stand, not of works, but of Him that calleth" (Romans 9:11). Israel's final redemption and deliverance is not insured by an innate ability to change that they are to undergo when they recognize Christ, rather it is their election by God that will insure that change. It won't be because of anything He finds deserving in Israel (or man anywhere) but rather on what the Lord is willing to put within (create or birth) them at regeneration when their blindness is rolled away. I think dispensationalists may be willing to keep looking through they eyes of faith until they see this promised resotration accomplished. So any future dealings of God with Israel will be based on grace alone and nothing deserving in the object of His grace. If my thesis here is correct then I think this will illustrate one of the basic tenets of the Reformed faith - salvation by grace through faith alone. I may not have everything right and I gleamed some of my comments from other sources. "for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13) Last Edited By: docs1 04/06/08 14:22:31. Edited 6 times.
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5 Solas		#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 167 03/11/08 07:09:37 Administrator	docs1 wrote: I can't speak for all of dispensationalism's beliefs because frankly I don't know them and some that I do know I disagree with. One of the controversies surrounding dispensationalism is iof course its beliefs concerning Israel. If my limited knowledge is correct, and even my intuition, I think maybe dispensationalism doesn't see God as having two people - Israel and the church. I think rather "dispys" may be trying to bear in mind Israel's unique covenant status in the plans of God and how this will eventually play out and bring a wholeness to the history of salvation and redemption. This unique and undeniable status is part of the reason Jesus said to the woman at the well, "Salvation is of the Jews." It is also I think part of the reason that God seems restless and unwilling to cease until the unbelieving natural branches are grafted back in again after the "mystery" of Israel's pre-ordained and temporary blindness concerning Christ (Romans 11:25). The original covenants are incomplete until "all Israel is saved" and dispensationalists as far as I know believe that Israel's restoration will bring final historical vindication to the covenants which will be a soverign testimony to the faithfullness and ability of God in the eyes of the nations. It in no way discounts the full membership that the largely Gentile church now enoys after having been grafted into the covenants of promise because of and in spite of Israel's unbelief - "I will make you jealous with a nation which wasn't a nation." It rather highlights that the church and the present elect of unredeemed Israel will experience a converging destiny that will eventually and ultimately rebound to the glory of the Lord. A natural innate abilty to walk after God in the inner man never has and never will be possessed by the Jews. That was not God's point in choosing the Jews to be the recipients of the covenants and the promises. It was rather to demonstrate that "the election of God will ultimately stand, not of works, but of Him that calleth" (Romans 9:11). Israel's final redemption and deliverance is not insured by an innate ability to change that they are to undergo when they recognize Christ, rather it is their election by God that will insure that change. It won't be because of anything He finds deserving in Israel (or man anywhere) but rather on what the Lord is willing to put within (create or birth) them at regeneration when their blindness is rolled away. I think dispensationalists may be willing to keep looking through they eyes of faith until they see this promised resotration accomplished. So any future dealings of God with Israel will be based on grace alone and nothing deserving in the object of His grace. If my thesis here is correct then I think this will illustrate one of the basic tenets of the Reformed faith - salvation by grace through faith alone. I may not have everything right and I gleamed some of my comments from other sources. You may enjoy this: http://www.pcahistory.org/findingaids/rpces/docsynod/183.html In Christ, 5 Solas
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docs1	Re: to 5 Solas	#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 6 03/12/08 12:29:52	Hi bro, That was certainly some link you provided for me. I read through it twice and was only vaguely aware of some of the information it contained. And some of it was new altogether. I have been hoping to run across something that would clearly set out some of the differences and there was much to digest there. So many thoughts and questions came to my mind that I better just hold off for now although I may ask some things concerning the statement later if it wouldn't be that much of a bother. Thanks. "for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13)
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5 Solas		#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 168 03/12/08 14:12:29 Administrator	docs1 wrote: Hi bro, That was certainly some link you provided for me. I read through it twice and was only vaguely aware of some of the information it contained. And some of it was new altogether. I have been hoping to run across something that would clearly set out some of the differences and there was much to digest there. So many thoughts and questions came to my mind that I better just hold off for now although I may ask some things concerning the statement later if it wouldn't be that much of a bother. Thanks. It may take some time to listen to these but they will be well worth your while: Dr. Kim Riddlebarger (he critiques Dispy very well) http://thirdmill.org/sermons/compile_speaker.asp/speaker/Kim%20Riddlebarger/site/iiim/category/speakers and when your finished there try: Dr. Authur Azurdia III (I should have these 81 sermons on Revelation up by the end of the day) http://thirdmill.org/sermons/compile_speaker.asp/speaker/Arturo%20Azurdia/site/iiim/category/speakers and Dr. Charles Hill: http://thirdmill.org/sermons/compile_speaker.asp/speaker/Chuck%20Hill/site/iiim/category/speakers In Christ, 5 Solas Last Edited By: 5 Solas 03/12/08 16:26:17. Edited 2 times.
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docs1	Reformed Synod on OT "equivalent " of new birth	#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 8 03/16/08 15:40:17	In the link to the Reformed Synod provided for me his statement was in the paper that the Reformed Synod presented under the section "The Body of Christ." < People in the Old Testament, even those born into the commonwealth of Israel, were born dead in sin; they were guilty of sin and deserving of the curse of God upon their sin; they were as totally unable to make themselves acceptable to God as people today. Apart from the future provision of redemption in Christ, they could have had no hope, and when by faith they did trust God for His deliverance, they must have experienced the equivalent of the "new birth". The truth "Ye must be born again" was as true in Old Testament times as it was when Jesus said it to Nicodemus, even though the terminology was unknown till Jesus used it. That OT saints could experience the "equivalent of the new birth" is a pretty amazing statement to me. An attempt is made to explain some of the dynamics behind the statement. The statement did not say it was regeneration the OT saints experienced but the '"equivalent" of it. I always thought that NT regeneration was a unique privilege only able to be experienced by NT believers and Jesus said those who are least in the kingdom of God are greater than John the Baptist who was extolled as very great by Jesus. Does anyone have any thoughts that may help better explain the synod's statements? "for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13) Last Edited By: docs1 03/16/08 21:37:54. Edited 2 times.
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Perisseuo		#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 214 03/16/08 22:50:06	docs1 wrote: That OT saints could experience the "equivalent of the new birth" is a pretty amazing statement to me. An attempt is made to explain some of the dynamics behind the statement. Doc, Since OT believers are saved on the same basis as NT believers - by grace through faith in Christ Jesus -, they must have experience something 'equivalent' to regeneration. I would need for others to explain it in more detail. Do you see the same criteria in salvation for both the OT and NT? If not, then that would put you on the dispensational side and help explain some of the differences that you asked about. * The question on tithing also outlines differences between Dispensational and Covenant Theology thinking. Israel and the church are two entities, not one. John Chaney** "having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith . . ." (Colossians 2:7 NASB) Last Edited By: Perisseuo 03/16/08 22:54:34. Edited 1 time.
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docs1	John, re OT "equivalent" of new birth	#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 9 03/19/08 14:12:13	I have thought about it and it makes a little more sense to me now. I'm just not used to hearing it explained in those terms or from that particular viewpoint. It's one of those areas that I have always just gave approval to - the OT saints who had faith being preserrved - but never really have studied or thought about it in depth. I believed it but after thinking it through, if they gained entrance to the kingdom of heaven it would have to of been through a new birth or something "equivalent" to it because all have to go by the same route of faith to receive it. Does this have anything to do with Christ going and preaching to the spirits in prison ( I Peter 3:19)? I've always thought of spirits in prison as perhaps being OT people who died in faith who were preserved and waiting for the Savior. But like I said, I never have added any fine detail to my belief about that like I am having to do now. "for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13) Last Edited By: docs1 03/19/08 14:14:29. Edited 1 time.
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What do the Reformed mean when they say someone is a "dispy?"	03/02/08 23:13:23	docs1
Re: What do the Reformed mean when they say someone is a "dispy?"	03/03/08 00:24:55	Perisseuo
Dispensationalism and Israel	03/10/08 00:33:24	docs1
Re: What do the Reformed mean when they say someone is a "dispy?"	03/11/08 07:09:37	5 Solas
Re: to 5 Solas	03/12/08 12:29:52	docs1
Re: What do the Reformed mean when they say someone is a "dispy?"	03/12/08 14:12:29	5 Solas
Re: What do the Reformed mean when they say someone is a "dispy?"	03/03/08 10:37:09	ndegroot
Re: What do the Reformed mean when they say someone is a "dispy?"	03/06/08 22:42:50	Fetor
Reformed Synod on OT "equivalent " of new birth	03/16/08 15:40:17	docs1
Re: What do the Reformed mean when they say someone is a "dispy?"	03/16/08 22:50:06	Perisseuo
Re: What do the Reformed mean when they say someone is a "dispy?"	03/21/08 12:36:52	earl40
Re: What do the Reformed mean when they say someone is a "dispy?"	03/21/08 14:18:28	5 Solas
John, re OT "equivalent" of new birth	03/19/08 14:12:13	docs1
Re: What do the Reformed mean when they say someone is a "dispy?"	03/19/08 16:30:05	Perisseuo
Re: What do the Reformed mean when they say someone is a "dispy?"	03/19/08 23:37:32	docs1

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