MarkNZ stated,
I also believe the old testiment saints are in heaven but believe the Church started at the day of Pentecost.
Where is the scriptural evidence that "the Church started at the day of Pentecost?" I have asked this numerous times and yet no scripture??? We know that mere assumptions are not above scripture, so where is the scripture???
MarkNZ stated,
Israel cannot possibly be interpreted as the church as you need to be born again to be part of the church, and we all know that the nation of Israel ( apart from messianic Jews) is certainly not christian.
Here you are failing to distinguish between the: (1) visible church and (2) invisible church. The visible church contains both those lost and saved. It contains OC individuals like Esau and Ishmael - lost, but covenant members. It also includes those our Lord spoke about saying, "not everyone that sayeth unto me Lord, Lord, … (Matt.5:21 f) and John saying. "they went out from us that they may be manifest they ere not of us …" (1 John 2:18-19; e.g. Rom. 9:6; 2 Pet. 2). I'm sure you would admit that many in today's churches are not saved either. Thus, Israel meets the definitions of the visible church. Some in Israel were saved, others lost.
The invisible church is all the elect from the foundation of the world. This church contains only the saved. This includes only those that were/are saved - all the elect - Jew and Gentile throughout all generations. We in the visible church do not know who all these are.
Moreover, you are failing to distinguish
between national Israel and what we may call spiritual Israel - or if it is easier even
Christian Israel (Rom. 2:28-29). Scripture clearly states, "Abraham
believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness" (Gal. 3:6-7). He had the Gospel preached to him (Gal. 3:8 ).
Hebrews 11 contains a long list of individuals saved by faith and in the church which the writer of Hebrews attempts to use (Heb. 12:1-2) to encourage NC
believers.
MarkNZ stated,
Anyway, I guess we have different views on that one so will have to leave it at that and i hope you enjoy your holiday.
Yes, it is evident that we have different views, but it is significant in that taking an unscriptural view on Israel may lead to sin - i.e. like alleging one does not need to tithe, etc.
