how in the fuzzy world of post-prattian thinking can you drive such a sharp wedge between idols and idolatry?
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 Daron Lawing |
Idols and IDOLATRY...Is there a connection? | #1 | ||
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Posts: 74 02/24/04 17:02:23 |
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ramclaughlin |
Re: Idols and IDOLATRY...Is there a connection? | #2 | ||
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Posts: 1455 02/24/04 17:08:17 |
Richard has seen the painting, and has made no negative comments about it. We also have images of famous paintings of Christ on our website. Reggie Kidd frequently shows pictures of Christ in his Acts-Paul class and even includes them on the bulletins for RTS chapel. The faculty of RTS is well aware of it, and has not asked him to stop, so far as I know. I would guess that some of the professors might have scrupples about it, but evidently the majority does not.
Moreover, I am not driving a wedge between idols and idolatry. I have tried careful to explain that I am differentiating between images and idols, not between idols and idolatry. Idols involve idolatry, and are prohibited by Scripture. Images, however, are not idols unless they are connected to idolatry. |
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Daron Lawing |
Re: Idols and IDOLATRY...Is there a connection? | #3 | ||
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Posts: 74 02/24/04 17:12:34 |
umm fallacious reasoning here as well. it doesn't follow that even if Richard likes your painting that it ain't in violation of the commandment.... not saying it is mind you ... wouldn't want you to have to get rid of it... but...
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ramclaughlin |
false fallacies | #4 | ||
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Posts: 1455 02/24/04 17:22:33 |
I didn't argue that because Richard didn't knock it, it's okay. I merely pointed out that Richard didn't knock it because you implied that he would disapprove of it (see "post-prattian" in your prior post). It was an appeal to the beliefs and practices of a community that I thought you might respect. I thought that if men you respected differed from you on their interpretation of the second commandment, perhaps you would listen to my arguments more sympathetically.
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Daron Lawing |
Re: Idols and IDOLATRY...Is there a connection? | #5 | ||
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Posts: 74 02/24/04 17:34:20 |
Quote: God did not forbid idols/images per se... he forbid idolatry. Yet the first phrase of the text clearly condemns the making images... graven images no less... Anyone have the latest interpretation of graven? |
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ramclaughlin |
too subtle for me | #6 | ||
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Posts: 1455 02/24/04 17:46:46 |
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here.
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Daron Lawing |
Re: too subtle for me | #7 | ||
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Posts: 74 02/24/04 18:02:35 |
Sorry RA threw you off by seeming to agree with you... my style is to think out loud... (thus the many ellipsis in my posts) gets me in trouble I know... perhaps I was just seeing your point... but then again....
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Matthew Gross |
graven images. | #8 | ||
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Posts: 283 02/24/04 17:58:38 Resident |
Quote: Not exactly, but we do have something like that here. Quote:I am sorry if I seemed uncharitable, you and I have had these discussions before, albiet 12 years ago regarding music in worship and Structure ties, and I merely meant to pick up where we left off...  I respect your opinion now as I did then and I meant no disrespect to you.Part of my point was that the lack of circumspection is on both sides. For example, someone who believes that the commandment prohibits all images will probably have a picture of his wife in his wallet. If the commandment prohibits all images, however, he is displaying a lack of circumspection. Quote: Main Entry: 1grave Pronunciation: 'grAv Function: transitive verb Inflected Form(s): graved; graven /'grA-v&n/; or graved; graving Etymology: Middle English, from Old English grafan; akin to Old High German graban to dig, Old Church Slavonic pogreti to bury 1 archaic : DIG, EXCAVATE 2 a : to carve or shape with a chisel : SCULPTURE b : to carve or cut (as letters or figures) into a hard surface : ENGRAVE 3 : to impress or fix (as a thought) deeply I think that taking just that word and applying it to our day, you would have to say that any reproduced image of any kind would be considered graven. But we must also look at the broader context. It tells us that God commanded graven images in his temple, and on his ark of the covenant, and at one point he even told moses to "grave" a bronze serpent and put it on a pole for the people to look at. It thus appears that either God violated his own commandment or a broad interpretation of the scope commandment is incorrect. |
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Matthew Gross |
Obviously everyone is ignoring me. | #9 | ||
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Posts: 283 02/24/04 18:06:16 Resident |
I posted this 5 minutes ago...I guess everyone is ignoring me since I haven't heard back yet.
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Matthew Gross |
Still Waiting... | #10 | ||
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Posts: 283 02/24/04 18:09:00 Resident |
It's two minutes later...come on guys pick up the pace...
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Matthew Gross |
I give up... | #11 | ||
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Posts: 283 02/24/04 18:10:01 Resident |
If you guys can't reply to my posts in a timely manner than I'm leaving...
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Daron Lawing |
Re: I give up... | #12 | ||
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Posts: 74 02/24/04 18:12:45 |
i posted i posted!!!
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Daron Lawing |
Re: I give up... | #13 | ||
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Posts: 74 02/24/04 18:15:23 |
ok I'm heading home. Let's pick up where we left off in the morning... RA maybe you can sum up and let me know where I've left dangling dots and I'll try to be more comprehensive in my next response!
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Daron Lawing |
Re: graven images. | #14 | ||
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Posts: 74 02/24/04 18:11:04 |
my my you have a good memory! forgive me if I've been too combative... I've been schlepping on the DC Metro now for around 6 years and it has hardened me like you wouldn't believe.
Hope all is well with you and yours. We just had another baby girl this past June. Emily... she's the most beautiful baby you've ever seen... sorry no picture of her though
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