Should it not sit well with us that Adam and the first trees looked far older than they were? Should miracles not sit well with us because they defy science or reason?
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 deins |
Miracles | #1 | ||
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Posts: 346 04/05/06 11:42:23 |
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ramclaughlin |
Are you asking me or Matt? | #2 | ||
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Posts: 1455 04/05/06 12:07:09 |
Looks like you may have intended to post this under Matt's most recent post.
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deins |
Questions were for any replies... | #3 | ||
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Posts: 346 04/05/06 12:13:09 |
but more towards the enlighted Matt
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Matthaeus Flexibilis |
Re: Miracles | #4 | ||
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Posts: 434 04/08/06 13:59:15 |
Quote:More to the point, did Adam have a belly button? Quote:Not at all. Here's my word study for the day: The Greek "dunamis" is sometimes translated "miracle" in the NT and means power, might, and strength and becomes virtus/virtutis in the Vulgate. The Greek "teras", also translated "miracle" (and always joined with semeia, signs), means sign, wonder, marvel, portent in English and becomes prodigium (a form of prodico, to say beforehand) in Latin. The former has more to do with showing God's extrodinary power, while the latter has more to do with indicating that something is going to happen (e.g. the Messiah will come). Primarily, I think you are referring to the former type, which are beyond human power to enact and against the normal operation of things (e.g., dead people stay dead). This would not include, e.g., the skillful surgeon saving your life. Creation of spacetime itself is a miracle -- an exhibition of God's power that is beyond us -- and even God's putative use of supernovae and black holes and the like to generate and sustain earth is miraculous in the sense that it is a display of raw power far, far, far beyond our capabilities. But, returning to your question, I don't see the relevance. An old earth view (whether framework or day-age) does not deny any miracles. (Hugh Ross and Meredith Kline both believe firmly in the miracle of creation, the miracle of the virgin birth, the water into wine, etc.) Rather, an old earth view simply argues that God performed his miracle of creation differently than the way the young earth view understands it. There is no denial of miracles or submission of faith to an "enlightenment mindset" here. I'm afraid you'll have to take your pigeonholing elsewhere. [edited for minor clarification of Latin] |
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deins |
Re: Miracles | #5 | ||
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Posts: 346 04/08/06 21:34:50 |
Quote: Glad to hear that the miracle of light in place would now sit well with you so I can't pigeon hole you with a rational enlightenment mindset on creation. Adam's naval is irrelevant to his appearance of age in size. i.e. his size alone would "not sit well" with a rational mindset. Adam to rational mindset scientist: "A second ago I was dust". Rational scientist replies: "You are wacked dude." Never let an unbelieving world shame you Flexibilis into theological novelties contrary to the word. All you do is grant them the freedom to interpret other passages of scripture using the same novel devices to deny the plain meaning or truth of scripture. |
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Matthaeus Flexibilis |
Re: Miracles | #6 | ||
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Posts: 434 04/09/06 09:50:00 |
Deins,
I don't have a problem with miracles and am not in an "enlightenment mindset." Your repeated claims to the contrary miss the mark, as I trust any disinterested party will see. Having interacted with you on this and other threads and having read your interactions with others, I feel that it is appropriate and necessary to publicly rebuke your lack of humility. You are unnecessarily combative and polemical; you sit in judgement over all; and you are unteachable. I'm sure this is not a new charge to you, and when asked about your sins, I have little doubt that you yourself list arrogance as high among them. I believe this about you because I have seen it in myself, and I also believe that you, by the grace of God, can make greater progress in combatting this sin than you might think possible. I will pray for your progress, but until you publicly repent for this public sin, I have chosen to stop interacting with you because I think doing so is a futile endeavor (like talking to a wall) and, quite frankly, is a waste of time. [edited for spelling] |
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