Btw, the article didn't say much about the Civic or Ceremonial law except to say they are no longer in effect. The article is mostly arguiing against antinominalism.
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Perisseuo
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Law - Civic, Ceremonial, and Moral |
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Although I have nothing specific from Anderson's article, Law - Civic, Ceremonial, and Moral, it makes me ask this question which I felt was
unclear. The moral law is wider than just the 10 Commandments, isn't it? Even the general-applied principles found throught the whole of the OT and NT are
included in the makeup of the moral law.
Btw, the article didn't say much about the Civic or Ceremonial law except to say they are no longer in effect. The article is mostly arguiing against antinominalism.
John Chaney
"having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith . . ." (Colossians 2:7 NASB) |
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5 Solas |
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Yes, the moral law consists of more than just the 10 commandments -- in addition, though Jesus summed up all the commandments in just 2, the ramifications of
the 2 involve all God's moral law as well. The author merely argued from the perspective of just an example in scripture - the 10 - against antinominism.
In Christ,
5 Solas |
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rodkirby |
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I have long been uncomfortable with using the moral/civic/ceremonial distinction as a way to divide up the law -- as if this part is moral, this part is civic,
etc. If you start doing this, you get to many laws which just don't fit any of the categories, and you have passages jumping back and forth between them.
If these were meant to be three distinct categories, it seems to me that they would have been basically presented in that fashion.
I think it's better to apply a bit of Frame-ian perspectivalism. Think about it this way. The commandment says, "Thou shalt not commit adultery." Adultery is covenant unfaithfulness. The moral aspect of that is obvious. But think about this as well. Who has displayed true covenantal faithfulness -- who truly fulfills that commandment? It's the Lord Jesus Christ. Not only did He remain covenantally faithful Himself (not committing spiritual adultery), but He has shown the ultimate measure of faithfulness to His bride, the Church, by loving her and giving Himself up for her. So that commandment can be seen ceremonially. In fact, all the OT law must be seen that way -- Christ showed His disciples how the entire OT, beginning with Moses, spoke of Him (Luke 24:27). All the law -- not just the laws about temple sacrifices -- are "ceremonial" in this sense. Similarly, that commandment has a civil perspective. If the civil magistrate is going to enact and enforce laws that punish evildoers and praise those who do good (Romans 13), then those laws must be such as to support spousal faithfulness. I believe one should look at all the OT law through these three perspectives.
Rod Kirby, Ph.D.
Dominion Christian High School Marietta, GA dominionchristian.org |
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5 Solas |
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Richard Phipps (Tenth Presbyterian Church, Philadelphia) argues:
This is a subject that has loomed large in the history of interpretation. Whenever Christians become serious about applying the Word of God, the question always arises as to the principles for doing so. During the Protestant Reformation this was a particularly vital matter, since whole nations were reorganizing themselves according to their views of the Scripture. A prime example of this took place in 1643, when the English Parliament called for "an assembly of learned and godly divines… for the settlement of the government and liturgy of the Church of England, and for the indicating and clearing of the doctrine of the said Church from false aspersions and interpretations."[1] The context for this was the English Civil War, the issue of which was the freedom of the people to be governed according to the Bible and not according to the king. So this issue before us was of singular importance to them. The Westminster Confession (PCA Version), which is that body of learned divines produced, and which is our own doctrinal standard, deals with the Law of God
in its 19th chapter.
The moral law, that which represents God's own moral character, is summarized in the Ten Commandments. These are forever binding, in both old and new covenants.The Confession puts it this way:"The moral law doth forever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof" (WCF XIX. 5).In other words, the moral law as summarized in the Ten Commandments, but also emphasized in many other places of the Bible, is binding upon us today. Therefore, it is our duty to not worship no idols, to honor our mother and father, to bear no false testimony, etc. The second category is the ceremonial law. These are, according to the Confession, "typical ordinances, partly of worship, prefiguring Christ" (WIW. 3).What this mainly refers to is the sacrificial system of the old covenant, although it also includes the whole cleanliness code including restrictions on food and the like. I have been preaching through the Book of Hebrews in the early service, and next week I will be preaching from one of the main passages that tells us how to think about such ceremonial laws. Heb 10:1 tells us, "The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming - not the realities themselves." The context of Hebrews 9 and 10 makes very clear that it is the sacrifices he has in mind; it is the ceremonial law that is a shadow set aside when the reality comes, not the unchanging moral law of God.This gets to the question about coming to see a minister when you have a boil. That regulation was wrapped up in the ceremonial law. It served to make a statement about sin, which corrupts the flesh, and the sacrifices the priest offered in that case very blatantly represented the saving work of Jesus Christ. The point here, however, is that the ceremonial law pointed forward to the work of Christ, which now has come so that they are set aside. The third category is the civil (or judicial) law. These are the laws that represented the criminal code, with its procedures and punishments, as well as a myriad of regulations and restrictions. These would include the various capital crimes, like murder, adultery, and many other sins.The Westminster Confession describes them as "sundry judicial laws, which expired together with the state of that people; not obliging any other now, further than the general equity thereof may require" (XIX. 4).In other words, these laws were for regulating the nation of Israel, which was then but no longer is the particular people of God. While there is an undisputed wisdom contained in this civil law it can not be made applicable to any nation today, since there are no biblically sanctioned theocracies now. The view expressed in our Confession is the broadly accepted view of Reformed churches, our own certainly included. There are two main objections to it. The first objection says that the three-fold distinction of moral, ceremonial, and civil law is not biblical. That it is not a distinction that is made in the Scripture. Although there are categorical groupings in Scripture, like the Ten Commandments, we also find various laws from different categories listed without distinction as if they all belonged together. You may have in Deuteronomy or Leviticus an expression of the moral law followed by something we put in the ceremonial law, followed by a part of the civil law. The objection therefore says that this three-fold distinction is imposed upon the Scripture without legitimacy. Our answer is that we are doing what the New Testament does, namely reflecting back on the Old Testament from the perspective of Christ's finished work. Furthermore, we are forced to reflect on the New Testament examples in which certain laws are set aside - such as the dietary laws and the sacrificial system - while others are rigorously enforced - such as the moral laws of the Ten Commandment. There is a logic at work that is not seen in the Old Testament because it is the work of Christ that produces this logic.Indeed, the Westminster Confession's view is not that laws have been set aside, but that a transformation has taken place in light of Christ's saving work. Israel has become the church. The ceremonial law has been fulfilled in Christ and is transformed into the sacraments that look back upon what those laws once looked forward to. The civil codes have lost their context now that salvation is in Christ, in a spiritual kingdom, and not in Israel, a temporal nation. They are transformed into the judicious application of church discipline. The moral law, however, reflecting God's changeless character, remains unaltered, although in Christ we are no longer condemned by our sins against it. Another objection comes from the theonomists, a word that means "law of God." Theonomists agree that the ceremonial law is exhausted, but insist on the direct application of the civil law. They say that God obliges all nations to live according to the laws established for Old Testament Israel. Such people sincerely advocate, therefore, the stoning of sexual sinners and the taking of an eye for an eye. The problem with this is that Old Testament Israel corresponds not to the United States, or to France or Uganda, for that matter, but the church. We, the church, are "the Israel of God," as Paul says in Gal 6:16. The church exerts a spiritual rule over its members, not a temporal one. It certainly is true that we would be better off if our nation passed laws more in step with the logic of the Bible, although I for one have no particular
desire to go back to the situation of Old Testament Israel apart from the grace revealed in Christ. We are "not under law but under grace," says Rom
6:14. But nonetheless we have been saved to be keepers and not breakers of the law. The law is not over us, to condemn us, but under our feet, to be a guide
for our path. In saying that, it is the moral law, as reflected in the Ten Commandments, to which I refer, which we have the pleasure of obeying to the glory
of God and out of gratitude for our salvation.
In Christ,
5 Solas |
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James Horgan |
Richard Alderson | #4 | ||
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Nice to see this article from a dear friend. However, you need to put his bio in the past tense. Sadly Richard died suddenly of a heart attack about five years
ago.
He was a deeply godly single man who rented a room in a hostel. He left behind one suitcase full of clothes having expended everything else he earned on the Lord's work. He was a testimony to God's grace to all who knew him. Yours in Christ, James Horgan. PS Of course, you could update all your bios to be in the present tense since our brethren live on still in the Lord's presence! |
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5 Solas |
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James Horgan wrote: Thanks for your comments. I changed the "is" to a "was." I think I will hold off on changing all the bios to the present tense.
In Christ,
5 Solas |
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rodkirby |
#6 | |||
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Just want to make sure I'm not misunderstood -- I believe it is valid and helpful to look at the law under those three heads. I just don't think we can
pigeonhole them neatly that way, as if to say, "This law is moral, that law is ceremonial, this other law is civic, etc." I believe the whole law has
moral application, the whole law has ceremonial significance (pointing to Christ), and the whole law has civic application.
Another example: Lev. 17:11 says, "For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life." This is part of the background for the writer of Hebrews when he says, "Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins" (Heb. 9:22). The ceremonial perspective on this is obvious, as it points to the perfect blood sacrifice of Christ. But we must not simply say that law has been done away with. It is still true that "without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins." Blood sacrifice is absolutely necessary for us. We could say that it is a moral imperative -- it is required of me to offer a blood sacrifice. But how do I do that? After the cross, I offer that sacrifice by pleading the once-for-all finished sacrifice of Christ. That law is not just a ceremonial law -- a law which pointed to Christ and which is now done away with. It is an expression of the very character of God, as is all the law -- forgiveness is only obtained through sacrifice -- and that is morally required of men for all time. Honestly, however, I can't right now think of a civic perspective on this law, except in a very broad sociological sense. Forgiveness (which is only found in the blood of Christ) is essential for social order over time. Think about the difference between Western societies and those cultures which have not historically been influenced by Christianity. I'm reminded of a cartoon I saw recently. One man (caricatured as a Middle Easterner) says, "I must kill that man, because his relative killed my relative." The other man (caricatured as a Westerner) says, "When did that happen?" The first one says, "In 1348." So we have conflict in the Middle East based on conflict which has been going on for hundreds of years -- tribal warfare. Contrast this with the West. Look at the United States since the War Between the States. Sure, some in the South talk about how "the South will rise again." But they're not serious. We don't have men from Atlanta hunting down descendants of General Sherman and killing them for what Sherman did to Atlanta. Likewise in the aftermath of World War II. Consider the horror Japan wrought on the United States at Pearl Harbor (don't go off into the Hiroshima discussion). After the war, the United States helped rebuild Japan, and now has great relations with Japan. We're not still trying to wipe them off the face of the map. Why is this so? Because the West has been influenced by the doctrine of forgiveness, which is central to Christianity. We don't need to take our own revenge, for, on the one hand, God says, "Vengeance is Mine." But also we can forgive our enemies, because God in Christ -- through the blood on the cross -- has forgiven our sins. That concept has given direction to our culture for centuries. So the "ceremonial" law of shedding of blood has tremendous civil impact as well.
Rod Kirby, Ph.D.
Dominion Christian High School Marietta, GA dominionchristian.org |
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5 Solas |
"now, but not then" | #7 | ||
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There is a difference in the literal doing and fulfillment of the law and a New Covenant application of the law. The civil and ceremonial
law have been abrogated in their literal doing sense. We no longer should be literally stoning people for touching mount Sinai (Ex. 19:13),
or literally stoning a rebellious son (Deut. 21:18-21), etc. We can and should make applications from these, but should not attempt to
literally fulfill them.
10 Any Israelite or any alien living among them who eats any blood-I will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from his people. 11 For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one's life. 12 Therefore I say to the Israelites, "None of you may eat blood, nor may an alien living among you eat blood."I do not believe God is literally cutting people off today for eating at the Longhorn Steak House - well maybe, Outback is better. However, as you demonstrated we can make application from the law (the writers of the NT do as well). Thus, it may be proper to speak of the "now, but not then" aspect of the civil and ceremonial law. They are abrogated in a literal doing sense, but we may still make application from them. Maybe this is what you are saying ....
In Christ,
5 Solas |
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ArnojJoran |
Civil Law and the First Four Commandments | #8 | ||
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Concerning Civil Law and the Bible, the New Testament teaches that the Magistrate is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil -Romans 13: 4. Is not heresy among the greatest of evils? If it is wrong to destroy a human life, how much worse is it be to destroy a human soul with damnable heresy? The authors of the Westminster Confession said of the Magistrate (Chapter 23) that he has authority, and it is his duty, to take order that unity and peace be preserved in the Church, that the truth of God be kept pure and entire, that all blasphemies and heresies be suppressed, all corruptions and abuses in worship and discipline prevented or reformed, and all the ordinances of God duly settled, administrated, and observed. The Belgic Confession agrees concerning the Magistrate "…their office is, not only to have regard unto, and watch for the welfare of the civil state; but also that they protect the sacred ministry; and thus may remove and prevent all idolatry and false worship; that the kingdom of anti-Christ may be thus destroyed and the kingdom of Christ promoted…" (Chapter 36). Godly Kings such as Hezekiah and Josiah did that which was right in the sight of God when they removed the high places and punished the priests of Baal and re-established biblical order in the nation. (II Kings 18, 22, 23) This was all in agreement with God's Law (Deuteronomy 17). With respect to civil law, what Biblical warrant do we have to ignore the first four of the Ten Commandments? Were Calvin, Knox, Beza, Turretin, and the Westminster Divines all so confused when they taught that modern Magistrates do right in the sight of the Lord when they too punish idolaters? Civil tolerance of the idolatry was immoral and anathematized in the Old Testament. Is such civil tolerance now moral and sanctioned in the New Testament?
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5 Solas |
#9 | |||
ArnojJoran wrote: Sorry I have not responded to you earlier, but we do not respond to posts on the Sabbath. If you desire to discuss "theonomy" please begin another series of posts in the General Discussion area. This area is reserved for articles.Thanks.
In Christ,
5 Solas |
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ArnojJoran |
Theonomy? | #10 | ||
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I have never studied Theonomy and don't profess to be a Theonomist, and so I may be misinformed, but I thought Theonomics was mostly concerned with crime
and punishment as it concerns the last six commandments. I thought I had read that somewhere, but I confess my ignorance on this matter.
I was actually attempting to address something in Mr. Alderson's article, perhaps I read too much into Mr. Alderson's words. Usually when I encounter phrases that suggest theocracy ended with the Mosaic economy it tends to mean that the worship of false gods, idolatry, blasphemy and Sabath profaning are not matters for the Magistrate to deal with, though they are issues for the Church to preach against. If I misinterpreted his meaning I sincerely apologize, if not, perhaps my post may be appropriate in this particular forum? Sincerely, Jeff Rojan |
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| Law - Civic, Ceremonial, and Moral | 04/03/08 10:06:02 | Perisseuo |
| Re: Law - Civic, Ceremonial, and Moral | 04/03/08 10:37:59 | 5 Solas |
| Re: Law - Civic, Ceremonial, and Moral | 04/03/08 13:50:16 | rodkirby |
| Re: Law - Civic, Ceremonial, and Moral | 04/03/08 16:12:38 | 5 Solas |
| Re: Law - Civic, Ceremonial, and Moral | 04/04/08 13:46:02 | rodkirby |
| "now, but not then" | 04/04/08 17:27:23 | 5 Solas |
| Richard Alderson | 04/04/08 05:06:34 | James Horgan |
| Re: Law - Civic, Ceremonial, and Moral | 04/04/08 12:24:36 | 5 Solas |
| Civil Law and the First Four Commandments | 04/06/08 20:53:28 | ArnojJoran |
| Re: Law - Civic, Ceremonial, and Moral | 04/07/08 07:53:04 | 5 Solas |
| Theonomy? | 04/07/08 17:55:12 | ArnojJoran |
| Re: Law - Civic, Ceremonial, and Moral | 04/07/08 20:38:25 | 5 Solas |
| Re: Law - Civic, Ceremonial, and Moral | 04/08/08 20:21:27 | ArnojJoran |
| Re: Law - Civic, Ceremonial, and Moral | 04/08/08 22:07:57 | 5 Solas |
| Re: Law - Civic, Ceremonial, and Moral | 04/08/08 22:35:55 | ArnojJoran |
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