Law - Civic, Ceremonial, and Moral

Re: Law - Civic, Ceremonial, and Moral

feeds@yuku.com (ArnojJoran) — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 22:35:55 GMT

Thank you for your time. I have other thoughts on the subject, but I get the impression that you would prefer to end the exchange. Before closing my end however, I would like to say that my view of the the magistrate is certainly agreeable to Calvin's, Knox's, Turretin's, Rutherford's, Gillespie's and many other respected doctors in the Reformed faith. These are hardly fountains of novelty or heterodoxy. It is disappointing to me that you dismiss my argument by simply...

Re: Law - Civic, Ceremonial, and Moral

feeds@yuku.com (5 Solas) — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 22:07:57 GMT

ArnojJoran wrote:

Thank you for considering my post. I had heard in the past that Theonomist actively sought to enlist Roman Catholics among their ranks. This, among other things led me to believe that they were not very concerned about the first Table of the law.

With regard to your reply, I'm not seeing the contradiction. On the one hand,...

Re: Law - Civic, Ceremonial, and Moral

feeds@yuku.com (ArnojJoran) — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 20:21:27 GMT

Thank you for considering my post. I had heard in the past that Theonomist actively sought to enlist Roman Catholics among their ranks. This, among other things led me to believe that they were not very concerned about the first Table of the law.

With regard to your reply, I'm not seeing the contradiction. On the one hand, if a minister begins spreading heresy throughout the land, the Magistrate has a duty to...

Re: Law - Civic, Ceremonial, and Moral

feeds@yuku.com (5 Solas) — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 20:38:25 GMT

ArnojJoran wrote:
I have never studied Theonomy and don't profess to be a Theonomist, and so I may be misinformed, but I thought Theonomics was mostly concerned with crime and punishment as it concerns the last six commandments. I thought I had read that somewhere, but I confess my ignorance on this matter.

I was actually attempting to address something in Mr. Alderson's article, perhaps I read too much...

Re: Law - Civic, Ceremonial, and Moral

feeds@yuku.com (ArnojJoran) — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 17:55:12 GMT

I have never studied Theonomy and don't profess to be a Theonomist, and so I may be misinformed, but I thought Theonomics was mostly concerned with crime and punishment as it concerns the last six commandments. I thought I had read that somewhere, but I confess my ignorance on this matter.

I was actually attempting to address something in Mr. Alderson's article, perhaps I read too much into Mr. Alderson's words. Usually when I encounter phrases that suggest theocracy...

Re: Law - Civic, Ceremonial, and Moral

feeds@yuku.com (5 Solas) — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 07:53:04 GMT

ArnojJoran wrote:

Concerning Civil Law and the Bible, the New Testament teaches that the Magistrate i Concerning Civil Law and the Bible, the New Testament teaches that the Magistrate is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil...

Re: Law - Civic, Ceremonial, and Moral

feeds@yuku.com (5 Solas) — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 17:27:23 GMT

There is a difference in the literal doing and fulfillment of the law and a New Covenant application of the law. The civil and ceremonial law have been abrogated in their literal doing sense. We no longer should be literally stoning people for touching mount Sinai (Ex. 19:13), or literally stoning a rebellious son (Deut. 21:18-21), etc. We can and should make applications from these, but should not attempt to literally fulfill...

Re: Law - Civic, Ceremonial, and Moral

feeds@yuku.com (rodkirby) — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 13:46:02 GMT
Just want to make sure I'm not misunderstood -- I believe it is valid and helpful to look at the law under those three heads. I just don't think we can pigeonhole them neatly that way, as if to say, "This law is moral, that law is ceremonial, this other law is civic, etc." I believe the whole law has moral application, the whole law has ceremonial significance (pointing to Christ), and the whole law has civic application.

Another example: Lev. 17:11 says, "For...

Re: Law - Civic, Ceremonial, and Moral

feeds@yuku.com (5 Solas) — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 12:24:36 GMT

James Horgan wrote:
Nice to see this article from a dear friend. However, you need to put his bio in the past tense. Sadly Richard died suddenly of a heart attack about five years ago.

He was a deeply godly single man who rented a room in a hostel. He left behind one suitcase full of clothes having expended everything else he earned on the Lord's work. He was a testimony to God's grace to all who knew...

Re: Law - Civic, Ceremonial, and Moral

feeds@yuku.com (James Horgan) — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 05:06:34 GMT
Nice to see this article from a dear friend. However, you need to put his bio in the past tense. Sadly Richard died suddenly of a heart attack about five years ago.

He was a deeply godly single man who rented a room in a hostel. He left behind one suitcase full of clothes having expended everything else he earned on the Lord's work. He was a testimony to God's grace to all who knew him.

Yours in Christ,

James Horgan.

PS Of course, you could...

Re: Law - Civic, Ceremonial, and Moral

feeds@yuku.com (5 Solas) — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 16:12:38 GMT

Richard Phipps (Tenth Presbyterian Church, Philadelphia) argues:

I want to deal with a theological question, which is also a very practical matter, as theology always is. The particular question has to do with applying the commands of the Old Testament. "As a Christian, how do we know what Old Testament laws we should abide by and which ones we shouldn't? For instance, I believe I should honor my mother and father, yet I don't believe I should wear clothes only made...

Re: Law - Civic, Ceremonial, and Moral

feeds@yuku.com (rodkirby) — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 13:50:16 GMT
I have long been uncomfortable with using the moral/civic/ceremonial distinction as a way to divide up the law -- as if this part is moral, this part is civic, etc. If you start doing this, you get to many laws which just don't fit any of the categories, and you have passages jumping back and forth between them. If these were meant to be three distinct categories, it seems to me that they would have been basically presented in that fashion.

I think it's better to apply a bit...

Re: Law - Civic, Ceremonial, and Moral

feeds@yuku.com (5 Solas) — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 10:37:59 GMT
Yes, the moral law consists of more than just the 10 commandments -- in addition, though Jesus summed up all the commandments in just 2, the ramifications of the 2 involve all God's moral law as well. The author merely argued from the perspective of just an example in scripture - the 10 - against antinominism.

Law - Civic, Ceremonial, and Moral

feeds@yuku.com (Perisseuo) — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 10:06:02 GMT
Although I have nothing specific from Anderson's article, Law - Civic, Ceremonial, and Moral, it makes me ask this question which I felt was unclear. The moral law is wider than just the 10 Commandments, isn't it? Even the general-applied principles found throught the whole of the OT and NT are included in the makeup of the moral law.

Btw, the article didn't say much about the Civic or Ceremonial law except to say they are no longer in effect. The article is...