Tithing

Re: Tithing

feeds@yuku.com (5 Solas) — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 08:38:47 GMT

MarkNZ wrote:
Scripture has to be interpreted, sometimes the answers are in other parts of the bible, sometimes not, ( re. the church starting at pentecost ) thats the only thing that makes sense to me and I believe thats quite a popular interpretation.
I agree with you on some of those things your saying. I also agree Abraham and other old testament saints are in heaven now but before Christ paid the price they were in...

Re: Tithing

feeds@yuku.com (MarkNZ) — Sat, 22 Mar 2008 22:31:11 GMT

Scripture has to be interpreted, sometimes the answers are in other parts of the bible, sometimes not, ( re. the church starting at pentecost ) thats the only thing that makes sense to me and I believe thats quite a popular interpretation.
I agree with you on some of those things your saying. I also agree Abraham and other old testament saints are in heaven now but before Christ paid the price they were in paradise.
National and spiritual Israel-Sorry if i interpreted what you were...

Re: Tithing

feeds@yuku.com (5 Solas) — Sat, 22 Mar 2008 20:36:37 GMT

MarkNZ stated,

I also believe the old testiment saints are in heaven but believe the Church started at the day of Pentecost.

Where is the scriptural evidence that...

Re: Tithing

feeds@yuku.com (MarkNZ) — Sat, 22 Mar 2008 01:21:34 GMT

I also believe the old testiment saints are in heaven but believe the Church started at the day of Pentecost.
I believe when the old testament saints died they went to paradise (opposite hell, as in the story of the rich man and Lazarus) and that when Christ descended and then ascended it says in Eph:4:8 he led captives in his train (which in my interpretation means the old testament saints), he took them up to heaven.
Israel cannot possibly be interpreted as the church as you need...

Re: Tithing

feeds@yuku.com (5 Solas) — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 20:07:05 GMT

Yes, the Church was already present, but not because of Pentecost (where is it that you read that Pentecost is the beginning of the church - which "exact" text, or is this merely your assumption?). The very author of Acts reveals that during Stephen's defense before the Sanhedrin, he referred to Israel after the exodus as "the Church in the wilderness." Acts 7:38 states, "This is he that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel that...

Re: Tithing

feeds@yuku.com (MarkNZ) — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 17:34:24 GMT

(Acts 2:41 states, "They then that received his word were baptized: and there were added unto them in that day about three thousand souls" and Acts 2:47, .... "And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved." A thing must first exist before anything can be added to it.)

It did exist, the day of pentecost started just before there, Acts 2, and then the harvest started coming in.

(Acts...

Re: Tithing

feeds@yuku.com (5 Solas) — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 09:24:14 GMT

MarkNZ wrote:
(Indeed, Christ is the Head of the Church and he was the one speaking in Matthew above -- thus the Church was already present. Moreover, Christ the Head of the Church has been around for some time -- well before His incarnation. )

Just one more point re.above:

I know he was from the beginning but he had to die and rise 1st before the church could start. The Holy Spirit had to come at...

Re: Tithing

feeds@yuku.com (MarkNZ) — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 23:39:58 GMT

(Indeed, Christ is the Head of the Church and he was the one speaking in Matthew above -- thus the Church was already present. Moreover, Christ the Head of the Church has been around for some time -- well before His incarnation. )

Just one more point re.above:

I know he was from the beginning but he had to die and rise 1st before the church could start. The Holy Spirit had to come at the day of pentecost which i believe is the beginning of the church. We are born again of...

Re: Tithing

feeds@yuku.com (5 Solas) — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 21:52:12 GMT

MarkNZ wrote:
Found some more scripture:
Matthew 16:18 ( I will build my church.) future tense. Not, I am building or I have been building.

Eph 2:20-21 (built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus as the chief cornerstone.

MarkNZ wrote:

Matthew 23:23 and Luke 11:42 are old covenant and spoken to pharisees.

Jesus is the head of the church and as the head comes 1st the church couldn't possibly start until Jesus had died on that cross. However I'll go look up some of that other stuff you've recommended.

By the way, there are other things that weren't revoked but we don't practice them.
...

Re: Tithing

feeds@yuku.com (MarkNZ) — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 17:15:34 GMT

I read that Hendriksen piece and found this among it.

(Hence, for Paul the church, consisting of Jews and Gentiles who have accepted Christ as their Lord and Savior, is indeed Israel.)

Of course Jews who have accepted Christ as their Lord and Savior are part of the church but those that haven't are not part of the church and that happens to be the majority at the moment.

To be part of the genuine church people need to be born again which couldn't even...

Re: Tithing

feeds@yuku.com (MarkNZ) — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 16:59:05 GMT

Re: Tithing

feeds@yuku.com (5 Solas) — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 08:22:32 GMT

MarkNZ wrote:
I have an NIV, looked up the 1st one and says assembly in mine. However, I'm more interested in the tithing debate.
It's such a controversial one. I used to tithe and when I did I used to defend it with a passion but after having studied up on it I find so much evidence against it being a new covenant practice. You'de think there would be some suggestions that the early christians tithed ( no...

Re: Tithing

feeds@yuku.com (MarkNZ) — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 01:48:02 GMT

I have an NIV, looked up the 1st one and says assembly in mine. However, I'm more interested in the tithing debate.
It's such a controversial one. I used to tithe and when I did I used to defend it with a passion but after having studied up on it I find so much evidence against it being a new covenant practice. You'de think there would be some suggestions that the early christians tithed ( no suggestions that the disciples tithed).Being such an important thing in the old...

Re: Tithing

feeds@yuku.com (5 Solas) — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 14:53:25 GMT

MarkNZ wrote:
I believe we are separate groups, born again believers and Israel but of course we pray for them.
But not everything in the old testament we obey, e.g. (sacrifices). If its been replaced in the New Testament then we do it the new way. (2 cor.9:7) in regards to giving. Nowhere is the church told to tithe. (Mathew 23:23 and...

Re: Tithing

feeds@yuku.com (MarkNZ) — Sat, 15 Mar 2008 20:59:18 GMT

For example: Before the tithe is taken in my church, someone gets up and qoutes something like Malachi 6-10.
But in Malachi 1:1 it says that it is addressed to Israel and meaning Israel as a nation. That scripture has been fulfilled for them, they have been abundantly blessed as in Solomans days, I haven't seen a christain so blessed that he can't contain it. To me that is obviously for the nation of Israel and not for the church.
As for bringing the whole tithe into the...

Re: Tithing

feeds@yuku.com (MarkNZ) — Sat, 15 Mar 2008 20:38:53 GMT

I believe we are separate groups, born again believers and Israel but of course we pray for them.
But not everything in the old testament we obey, e.g. (sacrifices). If its been replaced in the New Testament then we do it the new way. (2 cor.9:7) in regards to giving. Nowhere is the church told to tithe. (Mathew 23:23 and
Luke 11: 42) are still under the old covenant. Theres no suggestion anywhere that implies the early church tithed.
They took up offerings, collections and...

Re: Tithing

feeds@yuku.com (5 Solas) — Sat, 15 Mar 2008 06:15:38 GMT

So whar relationship, if any, do you see between the Church and Israel ?

Tithing

feeds@yuku.com (MarkNZ) — Wed, 20 Aug 1941 16:05:55 GMT

I tithed for many years but now don't believe it is scriptural. Of all the scripture in the bible on tithing, none of it is addressed to the church, only Israel so what are peoples views on this?